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Natalie Portman being confused by the fact that you have to say “hi” to someone before starting a conversation in France got me like ?????

“I feel there’s a lot of rules of politeness and codes of behavior there you have to follow. […] A friend of mine taught me that when you go in some place you have to say “bonjour” before you say anything else, then you have to wait two seconds before you say something else. So if you go into a store you can’t be like “do you have this in another size,” or they’ll think you’re super rude and then they’ll be rude to you.” [X]

#wait you don’t do this is other countries??

So that’s it guys. French are not rude, we just don’t like it when people don’t say “Hello” or “Hi” when they start a conversation. 

Don’t everyone say “Hi” before they ask something to someone? What’s next? Saying please is also a french thing or others countries does that too? 

Canada is similar. We say sorry and please. The Hello thing seems strange, but it actually makes sense.

Bro, this threw me for a loop when I moved up north. Like in the southern United States you say “Hi, how are you?” And then make a few seconds of small talk before you ask your question or order your food and when I went to Connecticut they were like “What do you want?” Without any hello or anything. In other places they just STARE at you waiting on you to place your order and gtfo.

I laid my hand over my chest the first time, and the only way to describe my look was “aghast” before I said “Good lord!” My husband said it’s the most southern thing he’s seen me do. He thought it was hilarious. But…. Like??? That’s rude as fuck??????? Don’t y’all say say “Hello” before throwing your demands at someone??

maybe this is why everyone thinks new yorkers are rude

this is absolutely why ppl think new englanders r rude. no one has any fucking manners

african culture, at least in ghana, demands you greet a person before you ask them something. if youre in an open market they may even ignore you if you dont.

We do this in Australia as well. If you just started straight off saying “yeah I want XXXX” we’d think you’re rude as all fuck.  You say hi, then make your request.  It’s basic acknowledgement of the other person as a person rather than some random request-filling machine.

Huh. Speaking as a New Englander, I usually go with “Excuse me,” but sometimes “hi” or “hey,” but with no pause – it’ll be, “Excuse me, hi, I was looking for X?” From my POV, it seems rude to get too chatty and waste some stranger’s time; I assume they have better things to do than make small talk with me, so I just get my request out there so they can answer me and get back to whatever needs doing. I always thank folks for their help afterwards, if that helps?

(The rules of etiquette are strange. People say New Englanders are rude and cold, but once during an unexpected snowstorm here in Seattle, my car got stuck and I was standing by the side of the road at a busy intersection in the snow for half an hour waiting for my housemate to come pick me up, and not a single person stopped. Back in Massachusetts, every other car on the road would’ve been pulling up to check to see if I was okay, if my phone was working, did I need a lift, etc.)

No but this was the first thing my cousin told me in France? you never ever ever start a conversation with anyone, not even like “Nice weather today, huh?” without saying Bonjour first. You HAVE to greet them or, just like Ghana, they’ll ignore the shit out of you, you rude little fucker

(And “excuse me” or “pardon me” doesn’t cut it. you still have to open with bonjour)

[and I can’t speak for New England but coming from Chicago and then moving Out West where the culture is VERY influenced by the South and DETERMINED to think of themselves as small town folk… I HATE when I have to make small talk before ordering food??? Like, if it’s a coffee shop that’s pretty much empty I’ll chit chat for a few seconds, but I’m still not going to make inane conversation about the weather unless the weather is extreme.

In a big city it is rude as fuck to waste my time making small talk with me when we are not even friends or neighbors??? I am here to get shit done. There are four other people in line behind me, and I don’t want to waste their time. I am here, I HAVE MY ORDER ALREADY DECIDED BY THE TIME I GET TO THE FRONT BECAUSE I AM NOT A CAVE WOMAN, and I am being polite by saying both Please and Thank You and not wasting other people’s daylight.]

I live in a small northern city, and I feel it would be rude to engage someone in more than maaaaaybe a sentence of small talk before placing my order. In addition to feeling I was wasting their time, I’d feel like I was demanding emotional labour (small-talk is emotional labour for *me*) that they weren’t being paid to give.

so bizarre.  New Yorker here.  Saying hi, how are you, etc before these kinds of commercial interactions is what’s rude to me – because ffs, there are people in line behind you, we have lives, move it along.  It’s really just a dramatic cultural difference – but borne of a real practical necessity.

Oh my god saying ‘hi’ takes less than A SINGLE SECOND YOU ARE NOT WASTING ANYBODY’S TIME

In Spain you have to say hello to people before you talk to them even people who work in retail deserve that bare minimum courtesy hello??

Transplanted New Yorker here, and the feeling here is: people who work in retail deserve the bare minimum courtesy you would afford anyone else, which is to not waste their time.  You maybe say a half-second “hi” and/or possibly “excuse me” to be sure you have their attention, then you get to the point as quickly and concisely as possible.  You don’t wait to get a “hi” back, you probably don’t ask “how are you”, you definitely don’t talk about the weather.  You smile and keep your tone of voice courteous-to-friendly, you say please, you thank them when you’re done, and you do. not. waste. their. time.

Except ”time” is really only shorthand for the concept:  you don’t intrude on their lives more than you have to.  NY is a very very crowded city which allows for very little personal space, so New Yorkers have developed a form of courtesy that involves minimizing our unavoidable intrusions on each other.  Which is why we hold doors without making eye contact, and why we tend to feel that in any interaction with a stranger, it’s actively rude to do anything but get to the point immediately.

I’ve had long talks with people about how “polite” in NYC/NJ/New England and polite in the Midwest are very, VERY different, and this thread nails it.  The Midwest (and the South, and apparently France) are very hung up on the forms of politeness, including the fake caring about other people’s days and making smalltalk.  NYC-folk, instead, are focused on the effects for politeness.  Am I intruding on your day? How can I make this as efficient as possible so that you can do what you want/need to be doing?

The big example I use is a tourist with a map.  If you stop in the middle of the sidewalk in NYC, people get annoyed and sometimes angry (I’ve seen this happen at the top of an escalator in Penn Station…) but if you pull out of the way, someone who has a moment will come and offer to help you, generally fairly quickly.

This is really interesting commentary on politeness.

I’m from England, and from a big city, and I’d say that we fall on the “effects” of politeness scale. We’d generally say “Excuse me” or “Hi” to people and go straight into the question. We don’t really do small talk unless you end up waiting around for something. And of course you say please and thank you and smile and are generally courteous throughout the following conversation.

… there should be a website for people to describe politeness etiquette in their local areas. I’m off to New Orleans soon and I’d really like to know the etiquette over there before I go…

*cribs ideas for worldbuilding*

I’m from england too, small town/country side, and you always open with “hi, can i get x?”
the idea of opening with “how are you” is… weird. so weird. they are a stranger. Unless you’re starting a longer interaction, like sitting down with an estate agent, or knocking on someone’s door for something, and even then it would be a “Ms X? Hi, I’m Y, nice to meet you. so I’m looking for…”
the maximum interaction would be a “nice to meet you”. otherwise you’re wasting everyone’s time. because they don’t care and neither do you. a polite “ excuse me, sorry, hi, i was wondering if” is the maximum preamble you need.

this is useful info tho. it explains a lot about some interactions I’ve had.

Eh les  frenchies, look what just come back to us, with two wonderful New Yorker Comment on how saying “bonjour” is a huge waist of time.

love it.

Interesting chat on politeness!

I can see both sides of this (having lived in New York City, different parts of France, and currently living in the middle of the East Coast in the US).

I am personally an introvert, so it’s lovely when I don’t have to waste anyone’s time with small-talk (like in the south), and I just say, “Hello, I would like” “please” and “thank you”, and the transaction is over.

At least saying “bonjour” is very important in France, but I don’t think that’s so different from here in the US. I think American tourists and ex-pats don’t realize that’s a thing, and they don’t think about the fact that they have to say “hello” in French first wherever they go in France.

But I see the other side of things as well, where it’s nice when your fellow humans care about you and want to pass on some good vibes in making a nice comment or sending a “Hello” with a smile your way when you pass on the sidewalk in a small town.

You just have to know which level of politeness to use where!

I would think that the “bare minimum courtesy” you owe a retail worker is to acknowledge their existence by greeting them, but hey, I’m not a New Yorker.

i’m not a new yorker, but i was raised by one, and here in pennsylvania, you’d generally say (to a worker) “excuse me….”, and when talking with my friends i’ll go, “hey!” and then immediately start in on the conversation.

like, if you’re doing something that won’t be longer than five minutes maximum, you say “excuse me”. if you’ll know the person for two weeks, then you’ll get to the polite “how are you”s.

personally, i wouldn’t know how to make small talk with a worker. it’s seen as weird and very rude and foreign here. you’re wasting their time.